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Concepts, philosophy, theory
There is active discussion below on promotion of various hospex on Nomadwiki. I'm not sure about rules on this page and am not sure how to have both threads active. This one-dimension format seems to be suboptimal for discussion.
Hello people! I would love to see conceptual part of this wiki more developed. So pages about philosophy, motivation, meaning, feelings, challenges and negative side of travel, balance, mental hygiene etc. and more similar topics related to theme of this wiki would be very interesting to see. Also topics like 'How to work on longer-term projects while moving' (i.e. what Garrett Lisi who developed some theory of everything while living in caravan; some folks around this wiki; some random digital nomads or bloggers are doing...) and anything related to long-term balanced lifestyle on the road. It might be really interesting to share these various motivations, know-hows, know-whys, concepts etc. hopefully not only for me. :)
So I started pages Philosophy and Music thinking what to do next and I'm curious about your opinion: Does this broad topic belong here? If yes, is there a way to promote it as a project (as wikipedia's WikiProjects are doing?) Do you find it in any way valuable/interesting? Or what do you think? Mrkvon (talk) 16:18, 31 July 2015 (CEST)
- Yeah, feel totally free to push that sort of general topics alongside pragmatic info. It's a good idea! This wiki came from an idea to store "everything else that doesn't go to Hitchwiki & Trashwiki" and the scope should be something between "cheap" and "free" (i.e. mentioning a cheapest hostel alongside stealth camping spots is ok). The wiki is taking different directions and evolving to topics between digital-nomadism, hostel/bus/airplane traveling, hitching, busking, black riding etc etc depending on what community feels like writing about. There isn't a strict form or anything like that. I'd also like to read more about life on the road and such topics. Just start stubs about them or add them to Todo page. Thanks!-Mikael (talk) 17:37, 31 July 2015 (CEST)
- Indeed, out of the box MediaWiki is not great for discussions. If there's enough interest we can set up something to make it easier...
- I love it, keep it coming! I always wanted there to be room for this. I added some [[ brackets ]] around a couple of words in your sentences that could have their own articles :) Also check Hitchwiki's. Guaka (talk) 15:03, 1 August 2015 (CEST)
Cross Promotion on Nomadwiki
On all place sections, there is cross-promotion of Trustroots. For example, Amsterdam http://nomadwiki.org/en/Amsterdam, Under accommodation sub- heading - there is an automatic link that cant be edited that says:
Meet fellow travellers on Trustroots"" - https://www.trustroots.org/#!/search?location=Amsterdam (on Amsterdam)
IMO, this is a great pity. I always saw NW and its information as independent of what hospex a nomad chooses to use and what the owners other interests are. I don't feel readers should be targeted with promotion of one specific product and a ""advertised"" search string. They may already be on a hospex, or have a travel style, that doesnt involve it. They may not be hitchhikers. Being asked to use (or suggested) only TR, on each and every place page, is IMO, merely click·bait, since the links "exploit the "curiosity gap", providing just enough information to make the reader curious, but not enough to satisfy their curiosity without clicking through to the linked content."
I have no problem with TR, but even as a non-profit, it is no more special than other non-profit hospex sites (BW, WS). I didn't work many hours adding content to Nomadwiki to drive trafiic to one particular site. I have always sought to be neutral, and not leave my other interests impact my contributions. Whether the owners of this site are involved in TR "should be" immaterial to me. I am a strong believer in Chinese Walls. If the owners of the site feel very strongly about proactively pushing traffic for non-profits, they they should provide links to all three Non-profit hospex sites, or delete these hard links and leave nomads make up their own mind. Subaculture (talk) 08:19, 23 July 2015 (CEST)
- I share the same concerns as Michael. I think it is inappropriate to have this pervasive link to trustroots - at least in my perception of Nomadwiki being a non-aligned well of info for nomads. I have no problem with Trustroots - I have a profile there - but my contributions here were made on the basis of it being a non-commercial/non-partisan information site. Kev
- Ideally I'd like to also be able to add deeplinks to all non profit open source hospex, so also to BeWelcome and WarmShowers. A bit like hitch:France. Unfortunately BW doesn't have an easy way to do this, you need to create the links manually. With WS I don't even know if there is such a possibility. Created https://github.com/warmshowers/Warmshowers.org/issues/620 and https://github.com/BeWelcome/rox/issues/6 for this.
- If we had links like this would this alleviate your concerns? Until automation is technically possibly, would you be willing to create the links manually? Guaka (talk) 01:57, 22 July 2015 (CEST)
(BTW, use ~~~~ for signing, to add a date.)
- Quickly added some functionality for BeWelcome. See Paris. Unfortunately no clear way to do this for WS (no landing pages).
- I think deeplinking to a location is particularly, I don't think a linking to BW/WS front pages as a fallback is very useful.
- Happy Subaculture sent me an email about this BTW. And it's good it's discussed and I'm sure we can work something out, possibly even improve WS and BW in the process :) Guaka (talk) 02:11, 22 July 2015 (CEST)
- Yep, I'd gladly add links to other projects as well but as said, there isn't a way doing so easily. We had the same issue at Hitchwiki at some point. BTW, these four projects (Nomadwiki/Hitchwiki/Trashwiki/Trustroots) are by no means isolate and separate projects — expect to see more different type connections between all of these, especially between wikis. E.g. seeing map content from Hitchwiki at Trustroots or ability to link your accounts. Also I have to say that we're helping BW and WS where we can and totally support them, they're great. :-) Thanks Subaculture for heads up! -Mikael (talk) 12:31, 23 July 2015 (CEST)
- Thanks for the feedback/comments/discussion. Glad to see other projects included as a first stage. Step in right direction to hold non-profit hospex community together despite belonging to different hospex. Still, not sure how I feel that by contributing to Nomadwiki, I am ultimately and indirectly contributing to the Trustroots project. While itsnot like the Facebook-NSA connection :) IMO, it will have to be made very clear to contributors at some point that Nomadwik/ Hitchwiki /trashwiki are all part of the trustroots project. Subaculture
- It may not be very clear or even intended but at this point you're contributing to my personal business when you edit Nomadwiki and Trashwiki, a bit like HC and its owner, except that I'm not like the owner of HC and that NW/TR are not like HC ;) And moving the projects under the umbrella of Trustroots Foundation is clearly a huge improvement, 1. for me personally 2. for contributors 3. for readers 4. for longevity. With Hitchwiki it's not that clear, as we said it's part of a German hitching organization, but this has never been made very official, and in practice there is also not a lot of clarity about who does what. By moving HW to TR Foundation this will hopefully be better and clearer.
- I also want to stipulate that A. I want to reduce bureaucracy to the minimum B. keep the respective communities in charge of what's happening with the project (in this order). Guaka (talk) 13:22, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
- BTW related to this; just two days ago I moved nomadwiki.org domain from my personal ownership to Trustroots Foundation, which is officially non-profit, while I'm just a dude officially. ;-) As Guaka says, this is much better situation for everyone in many ways. -Mikael (talk) 13:28, 24 July 2015 (CEST)
- Yes! I added that to the City form (and template) e.g. http://nomadwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Amsterdam&action=formedit (you can get there with the "Edit by form" link on city pages). You have to find the appropriate links at BW (and WS) and put them in there. Let me know if there's a problem.
- We can do the same with countries at some point. Let's first see how it works for cities. Guaka (talk) 12:15, 27 July 2015 (CEST)
BTW just for the record, BeWelcome banned links to Nomadwiki from their site:
In the post, you provided a link to a thread that promoted 'black riding' on public transport in Lisbon. We have received a complaint from another BW member, living in Lisbon, that the link promotes an activity that is illegal and undermines public services. As moderators, we take no view about anyone's opinions on 'black riding' but, given that the BW Forum Rule 5. (a) states "Refrain from posting any material which is.. ..in violation of any law." we feel obliged to uphold the member's complaint.
- Ahh, but they banned a link to black riding rather than nomadwiki. We have a discalimer here on nomadwiki to say we bear no responsibility. The link to black riding on BW had no such disclaimer. I am quite sure there is no "blanket ban" on nomadwiki from BW. I was not involved in this issue, but am a member of BW.
- Subaculture (talk) 14:49, 22 November 2016 (CET)
- You're right. I asked for clarification and they confirmed that only links to pages about blackriding (or other illegal stuff like that) are not tolerated. I assume this is the same for such Hitchwiki and Trashwiki pages, too. Potentially every page on Nomadwiki will have some Blackriding info added even after linking to them, the same is true for Hitchwiki and Trashwiki.
- I asked if links to here could be tolerated if we would add a disclaimer like we have on Hitchwiki, but I didn't really get a clear answer:
- The problem is not links to Nomadwiki as such and there is no suggestion that all links to Nomadwiki should be banned. The disclaimer you suggest is entirely down to a decision of Nomadwiki - the BW mods make no comment because, frankly, as mods, it is none of our business.
- The complaint was not about linking to Nomadwiki, but only about linking to this specific thread about 'black riding' in Lisbon. As a Lisbon resident, the complainant had views about this. As mods, we are not agreeing or disagreeing with these views but can understand them - as I am sure can you, even if you disagree. Their complaint was that this post breaks the Forum Rules because the thread linked to promotes illegal activity - and this was upheld.
- We are not asking for any action regarding Nomadwiki, or looking to silence any opinions in BW - members are still free to give their opinions about all subjects, including black riding. We would always draw a distinction between members expressing their views on illegal activities and material that promotes such activities.
- In consequence, we are asking for this specific link to be removed because of the specific circumstances of this particular complaint. In many ways, it is academic as the link will have been viewed already, but we still need to respond to the complaint. I hope you understand.
Info from other wiki ?
If they are some info in other wiki (Hitchwiki) that fit better to nomadwiki, should we add them here ? For example info about place to sleep, internet access, nice spot, free access to monument, ...
copied from Facebook
hi kasper i was just about to start writing an article about the wild hot springs in tuscany and thought it would be awesome if it had the same structure as the "winter retreats" article, so as to collect wild hot springs from different regions/countries mikeal said you could maybe create a form for that (travel destinations) C
- sure, what's it for and what exactly should be in the form? Guaka (talk) 20:27, 8 October 2013 (CEST)
- it´s mostly about automatically listing it as a type of travel destination, and it would be structured as the winter retreats article, starting with a short general introduction (what is a wild hot spring, a one sentence thing i guess, just to define what belongs into the article) and then various entries sorted by country and then placename (village)
- i don´t know if that really complicated, but i think a cool option would be, to have some kind of automatic connection between country pages and destination pages. to use the winter retreats article as an example: if you start listing thing for spain there, in the spain article a link to winter retreats would appear, same if a hot spring in italy would appear, on the bottom there could be an automatic thing with travel destinations and there´s the link to the hot springs article C
an attempt at a clearer, more structured formulation: on the front page there´s a section "travel destination", which I think could work as a nice complemantary to city pages. It would work kind of in the opposite direction as a city page. You´d look up the city page if you´re already know where you are going and want to know what to do. You´d look up a travel destination page when you know what to do and want to know where to go. Since country pages work in a similar way (you know where you wanna go but look for more inspiration), i think it would be nice to link travel destination that have entries in a certain country on that countries page, so to just add one more content headline "travel destinations" on the country template where the links to the general articles could be listed. Clem (talk) 00:48, 9 October 2013 (CEST)
- Cool, I understand it better now. Most fields are overlapping though, so maybe it's better to rename city to destination and reuse the same structure for now? Not sure though, maybe "Travel destination" is actually good. Now we have some stuff in Free Hot Springs. We could work out some more examples to see what makes most sense before changing anything at this point?
- It could also make sense to simply have info about San Filippo, and then put that in a Category:Free hot springs? This could then also be included on the country page. It'd be good to get an idea of what kind of destinations there are. Guaka (talk) 18:23, 9 October 2013 (CEST)
- other kind of destinations could include (i´m brainstorming a little here): wildcamping beaches (for example kara dere, kupari), abandoned buildings (for example halte royal d'ardennes in belgium, or again kupari, or the abandoned city of vogelsang but excluding abandoned buildings that could be listed as part of a city that has more of interest than that one spot, for example berlin.) or former rainbow gathering sites (always good to know for a hitchgathering). Clem (talk) 22:04, 10 October 2013 (CEST)
By editing article (Israel), I asked myself if some of content was relavant to Nomadwiki. This included the list of the embassies, the requirements for the visas depending on the countries. It is content very hard to keep up to date and is maybe not quite in the vibe of Nomadwiki. Is it important to have a list of embassies, as it is moreover a very easy info to find? Arthuronwa (talk) 11:59, 5 August 2015 (CEST)
- At some point I merged visawiki.org into Nomadwiki. And Visawiki itself also contained copies from another wiki. At this point Nomadwiki is ranking for some visa related keywords, and it gets some traffic. I guess the list of embassies can be removed, especially if you add a link to an up-to-date source with this information. Guaka (talk) 12:11, 5 August 2015 (CEST)